When Does a Fetus Become a Baby?
One of the most common arguments abortion supporters use when confronting abortion opponents is asking, "So when does life start? When does a fertilized egg become a fetus? When does a fetus become a baby?"
These questions are meant as a "gotcha" because abortion supporters know there is no scientifically provable answer. I can't reply that "life begins at conception", because they will say that's a "religious belief," not a scientific one. The abortion supporters then say that destroying a fetus is not murder, because a fetus is not yet alive; it's not yet a baby.
To turn the same questions back on them, it's obvious that abortion supporters must have definitive answers to these questions. They must know exactly when a fetus stops being a fetus and becomes a baby, because although they support destroying fetuses (a.k.a. abortion), they don't support murdering babies.
But they too cannot answer these questions. The same questions abortion supporters use trying to undermine the anti-abortion position also undermines the pro-abortion position.
I am adamantly against abortion. As technology has improved over the past few decades, we are able to save premature babies earlier and earlier. What used to be an "abortable" fetus is now a savable premature baby.
I think I would rather err on the conservative side in case, one day, science is able to prove that life begins at conception, at 6 weeks, or at 12 weeks. If that happens, I would hate to be the person who supported abortion and have those millions of deaths on my soul and conscience.
posted by The Phantom Republican @ 1:44 PM
26 comments
26 Comments:
Vous devez être américain !
Ces gens qui sont pour la peine de mort et contre l'avortement.
Sorry, my english is not beautifull.
For you non-French speakers out there, I think the English translation is:
"You must be American! Those people who are for the death penalty and against abortion."
Or something like that.
Nicolas,
J'ai une reponse pour vous! (I think that means "I have an answer for you.")
There is a big difference between the death penalty and abortion.
The death penalty only applies to people who have committed heinous crimes, murdering their fellow man.
Abortion is the willful killing of the most innocent and helpless among us.
That is why there is no contradiction in supporting the death penalty while opposing abortion.
Merci bien,
The Phantom Republican
Nicolas,
Here's another way of looking at the issue.
If we were back in 1944, I would support executing Hitler, but also support rescuing Anne Frank.
There's no contradiction there.
Best regards,
PR
It is mighty odd that there are those who oppose the death penalty but support abortion. It is even more strange that those who do say, "How dare you oppose abortion but support the death penalty!"
abortion is an issue that you cant just make black and white
when i was 13 i was raped by a boy at my school and if i had became pregnant i would have aborted it.
im 17 now and the rape itself still haunts me till today,
if i had become pregnant and had to deal with the pain and embarrasment of being pregnant by a boy who raped me and have to go in public with a huge belly and people think i was a nigger lover teenage whore i would have never recovered. i was called a whore for that happening, imagine if i had to carry his child for 9 months and everytime i look at my stomache it would be a reminder of the terrible event that happened.
thats a terrible fate for a young girl
I'm sorry but did you just say nigger lover? Are you racist or just the people from your town. I don't want to be premature in my assumptions but I have to say if you are racist you have more problems than just being rapped. I am anti-abortion and anti-death penalty because Jesus taught me that life is sacred NO MATTER WHAT.
no, im not racist. i have a black boyfriend in fact. i said the people in my town are racist
and maybe you should get pregnant by rape and carry it around for 9 months and feel the shame that i would have felt
then id understand your reasoning behind you pro-choice answer
I agree that rape is awful, but it is not the baby's fault you were raped. I've been doing a paper on abortion for school, the more I found out about it, the more I am against it. Abortion isn't only a permanent choice, it also hurts the women, who are lied to at the abortion clinics. This I found from an interview that was done with Erik Harrah, previous abortion clinic owner. Here's a couple of links that you can look at too, http://www.abortionfacts.com/dr_willke/connector_july_98.asp
http://www.gravityteen.com/pregnancy/quotespros.cfm
Not only this, I personally know someone who is the product of rape. She's glad to be alive today, if her mother had aborted her, she wouldn't be a mother of three children today.
i'm not pro nor anti abortion. everyone has their own values and conscience, and we must respect each other.
i think that abortion should remain open, it is up to the person whether she'll choose abortion or not. In anti abortion's case we could make some ways on how we could prevent these things.
also, there are studies that the fetus is alive on the certain week, i think its within 2 weeks or 3 within those weeks the fetus is still dead. i'm not very sure, but theres already studies that fetus is still dead on the first few weeks.
I'm 18 and I know girls from my school that have had abortions.
I don't judge them because of what they did, mostly because it is none of my business.
However one did tell me that it because at the time being only fifteen she couldn't afford to finance the child or provide the proper care by herself.
Sure I guess you could say that she shouldn't have been doing the things she was doing at her age but things happen un-wontedly and un-planned throughout the world everyday.
I've seen children being abused, ill treated, victims of malnutrition and isn't better that she didn't put that baby in the same situation.
If GOD and religions felt so strongly about anti-abortion then why would God have created Murders, rapists, child abusers, women who abort their children?
We follow bibles and religious beliefs written by only god knows who, I mean who was really their when Jesus walked the earth? You! I didn't think so.
Abortion is the wilful killing of the most innocent and helpless among usUs? are you saying you are but one of them?
This embryo, fetus, baby, whatever you want to call it is but 46 chromosomes made from a man and a women at their own discretion.
Should they not have the right to do with it as they please? Whether it be termination or adoption IT IS THEIR CHOICE and quite frankly none of your business!
sincerely yours, a critical thinker
^ Well then once the fetus-baby is outside the womb they must relinquish control over its life?
Shouldn't you have the right to kill your 2yr old because you've determined he wont have a good life and you dont want him to suffer? He _IS_ your child after all, you created him, so you have ABSOLUTE Control over his life right?
So If the parents of a newborn decide their baby looks retarded why cant they just stick the baby's head back in and THEN kill it? Once it comes ALL THE WAY out its too late?
twisting my words doesn't make me wrong or you right..
I never said that it would be alright to kill a two year old baby or do away with a mentally ill or as you say 'retarded' child..
All i say is that instead of wasting our time and energy frowning down on people who make the decision to abort their un-born children, why don't we put our brain power together to try and tackle some bigger issues in life, like terrorists and politicians..
I probably wouldn't have an abortion myself, but i most definitely wouldn't turn my best friend away because she did either..
Why would someone turn away their best friend because they made a bad choice? By saying that are you admitting that abortion is undesirable?
What kind of sick person would want to kill a part of themselves because they are having financial troubles? or they think their child would have a bad life? Shouldn't the child they created decide? Maybe your argument would be that it can't make its own choices. Why don't you let it grow up and find out? Killing is against nature. And abortion is a direct mockery for the gift the God gave us. Who are you to decide who goes to heaven or hell? Likewise, who are you to decide who lives and who doesn't?
Why would someone turn away their best friend because they made a bad choice?
Good question, to be honest i have no idea, because i wouldn't do that...
Abortion, undesirable? No
Necessary at times? Yes
Do some people feel ashamed about having abortions? No doubt
So do they really need other people with their own little comments in their face making them feel twice as bad? Hell no!
Well for starters try raising a child who was conceived by rape in a gang related society with a solo mum with no job!
Is the mother of that emotionally disabled child sick? Is she to blame? Would she be wrong for wanting to abort that child?
What about the children who's parents chose not to abort and chose to raise it in that same environment and then the child commits suicide?
Is that not the child being able to decide?
Killing is against nature.
I think not my friend, killing is a way of life, we kill animals for food.
We kill nature in order to live what we think is a better life.
And mankind has most definetly been killing each other off since before christ over money, power, land and much more.
Who are you to decide who goes to heaven or hell? Likewise, who are you to decide who lives and who doesn't?
I'm not to sure if I believe in heaven or hell, because how would you actually know? I mean i've never met anyone who's been there!
And not that ive had an abortion or plan to have one in the near future but i would say,
"My body, my child, my choice"
And why would it be any of your business
A child commiting suicide in the same situation has no relaveance to abortion. The child decided his own life. Aborted fetuses didn't decide to be aborted. And yes, with your argument killing a two year old would be okay. You said that the fetus is 46 chromosones made by the man and woman so they have to the choice to with it what they want. Well newsflash ALL people are those chromosones from their parents. So only if the thing is inside the mom its okay for it to die? your arguments don't quite add up or make sense.
And I must say you must not have any knowledge of christianity and God because in the religion christians believe God created good people, and the devil corrupts them into murders, rapists, etc. So you can't twist what christians believe to fit your own argument.
Again "My body, my chil, my choice"?
Any child of yours is our choice?
Haha. Yeah right. Social services could take it under any abuse. So how is "your child, your choice"?
And you just called it a child.
Which would make it murder, if that be the case.
So sorry if offend you in what i say or write..
You can agree or disagree with my thoughts as much as you want, but in my view if i were to become pregnant and it was my choice to abort my child, foetus, 46 chromosomes or whatever then so be it.. Like i said it's my choice, not yours, not hers, not my mothers, not gods, but mine and mine alone..
I'm eighteen and you could probably argue that i'm naive and so on and so forth..
But i believe that discrimination towards women who decide to have abortions is wrong and un-just..
I merely like the fact that the topic at hand causes so much friction between people intrigues me.. I don’t think i would have an abortion myself unless i really felt the need to, but i still don’t have a problem with it..
But i would most certainly like to know why people do..
Dear critical thinker and others, GOD did not create murderers, rapists, and the people who choose abortion. He gave us free will to choose between good and evil. He gave us the choice to choose how WE live our life. No, we weren't all there when jesus walked the earth, sorry? you weren't around when oh, let's use Hitler again, you weren't around when he was there, so do you believe in him? Just trying to make the point, just because we weren't there doesn't mean it never happened. I'm pretty sure everyone back then didn't make him up, give them more credit, they weren't all as dumb as you may think. How do I know? because there's record of people from B.C. (before Christ) that predicted and discovered astronomy, science and math, that is all still proven true today. That point is, they weren't a bunch of idiots carrying clubs that made up the bible. Also, if GOD were a scientifically proven being, we would all believe in him. He wants to see who will have faith in him despite contradictions and lack of any scientific proof. I'm pregnant, and 20 years old. I CHOSE to keep my baby, because in my mind, no matter what point it's at be it a fetus, baby, etc., it's still completely innocent, and abortion is still willfully taking away it's chance to live. Those who are pro abortion are all about what they "want" to do, why should they have to deal with the consequence of their actions if they don't want to? Why shouldn't they take away an innocent beings chance at life, if it's not CONVENIENT for them. I know people who have had an abortion, and I haven't left their side. My mother was adopted and if she had been aborted, I wouldn't be here, my brother wouldn't be here, and my child wouldn't be here. It's not just one life you're pushing away. Oh yea, and might I add, I've been raped, about two years ago. So there is no face of this that I haven't seen...who cares if people call you a "n***** lover" ... why does any innocent life depend on what people will think of you? Albeit the religious view of this, it should just be a moral issue. Religion or not, there are still ethics in this world, at least I'd hope. I'm not in any way saying to judge and be hateful to those who choose abortion. However, I don't believe in it, and hate to see people doing it. Remember, when you assume, you make an ass out of u and me. I will add that I agree with one thing Amelia said, it's not black and white. There are circumstances to consider. I'm open minded to those circumstances, but I also have strong views in the pro-life direction.
You are so right.. The people who choose to abort are caught in their own, how do you say it?? Selfishness?? They think about how any decission will effect themselves first and others later..
For eg. the thought of carrying the product of rape inside you for nine months is a terrible fate for the young women & abortion as you say can most possibly be a terrible fate for the POSSIBLE CHILD..
However i believe in the right to decide for yourself!!
Thats all i say..
"To abort or not to abort, THE DECISION IS yours!!"
I just wanted to point out to Critical Thinker this:
"If GOD and religions felt so strongly about anti-abortion then why would God have created Murders, rapists, child abusers, women who abort their children?"
God gave us our own minds, and the power of choice. We make bad choices, were human with much power of decision. Well, we sometimes use that power to make bad choices and people do become 'bad' people. That's the whole point of God giving us choice; to be who we are and He's not just gonna interfere to make us perfect.
Personally, there are few situations that a woman should consider abortion.
I my self was almost an aborted baby. My biological mother didnt want another mouth to feed, yet was willing to go sleep with one and everyone she found. When my biological father insisted she keep me, she started using drugs to help herself have a miscarriage.
When I was born, my biological mother gave one last attempt to get rid of me. She tried to drown me in the bath water the nurses had brought for her to bathe me in.
So because of her actions, I was then adopted out to my very loving family I now have.
I think abortion is all about morals and beliefs. Personally, I do not see how someone can go so many weeks or months with something beautiful growing inside them, and just kill it. (this is not for the ones who were raped or what not, just the woman who decided she no longer wanted to be pregnant) I think it is a huge lapse in character.
You must ask yourself, would you be okay if your mother had decided to abort you? The influences you have had on other people, the things you have been through. Would you be alright not knowing any of them?
Rape is one thing, you see I too have been raped. And had I gotten pregnant yes it would have killed me. But I know, because I am a mature person, that to some other family, it would not be a "rape baby" it would be the baby they could never have and now were given one. In this day and age adoption agency's go into more depth and obtain more knowledge about the persons who are up for the adoption babies. They are not just going to send a child to a low income, poor supplied family for them to raise that child in poverty.
The social impact is very controversial. Someone said that they would have been "called a whore" for carring around this baby. I disagree. If someone were to be public about being raped, then the public should see your gesture to keeping the baby and then giving it up for adoption a moral thing.
Personally, I firmly believe any woman is strong enough mentally and physically to carry a baby for 9 months, rape baby or not, to make sure it is provided a better home. So the excuse that someone cant, "mentally" handle the thought of some rapists child in their womb, I'm sorry but you need to be mature and understand it is not the baby's fault, it is pure and wholesome and knows no wrong. So how can it be so horrible?
Now therapeutic abortion is a whole other argument. Say the womans life is in danger, then yes she must choose whether to carry the child or not. Again this boils down to morals. If I would be put in this position, I would choose to carry the child, knowing I have had a long and wholesome life.
In the end, abortion is always going to be a highly argued subject. And everyone has their own opinion. This was just simply mine.
Personally, there are few situations that a woman should consider abortion.
I my self was almost an aborted baby. My biological mother didnt want another mouth to feed, yet was willing to go sleep with one and everyone she found. When my biological father insisted she keep me, she started using drugs to help herself have a miscarriage.
When I was born, my biological mother gave one last attempt to get rid of me. She tried to drown me in the bath water the nurses had brought for her to bathe me in.
So because of her actions, I was then adopted out to my very loving family I now have.
I think abortion is all about morals and beliefs. Personally, I do not see how someone can go so many weeks or months with something beautiful growing inside them, and just kill it. (this is not for the ones who were raped or what not, just the woman who decided she no longer wanted to be pregnant) I think it is a huge lapse in character.
Rape is one thing, you see I too have been raped. And had I gotten pregnant yes it would have killed me. But I know, because I am a mature person, that to some other family, it would not be a "rape baby" it would be the baby they could never have and now were given one. In this day and age adoption agency's go into more depth and obtain more knowledge about the persons who are up for the adoption babies. They are not just going to send a child to a low income, poor supplied family for them to raise that child in poverty.
The social impact is very controversial. Someone said that they would have been "called a whore" for carring around this baby. I disagree. If someone were to be public about being raped, then the public should see your gesture to keeping the baby and then giving it up for adoption a moral thing.
Personally, I firmly believe any woman is strong enough mentally and physically to carry a baby for 9 months, rape baby or not, to make sure it is provided a better home. So the excuse that someone cant, "mentally" handle the thought of some rapists child in their womb, I'm sorry but you need to be mature and understand it is not the baby's fault, it is pure and wholesome and knows no wrong. So how can it be so horrible?
Now therapeutic abortion is a whole other argument. Say the womans life is in danger, then yes she must choose whether to carry the child or not. Again this boils down to morals. If I would be put in this position, I would choose to carry the child, knowing I have had a long and wholesome life.
In the end, abortion is always going to be a highly argued subject. And everyone has their own opinion. This was just simply mine.
Personally, there are few situations that a woman should consider abortion.
I my self was almost an aborted baby. My biological mother didnt want another mouth to feed, yet was willing to go sleep with one and everyone she found. When my biological father insisted she keep me, she started using drugs to help herself have a miscarriage.
When I was born, my biological mother gave one last attempt to get rid of me. She tried to drown me in the bath water the nurses had brought for her to bathe me in.
So because of her actions, I was then adopted out to my very loving family I now have.
I think abortion is all about morals and beliefs. Personally, I do not see how someone can go so many weeks or months with something beautiful growing inside them, and just kill it. (this is not for the ones who were raped or what not, just the woman who decided she no longer wanted to be pregnant) I think it is a huge lapse in character.
Rape is one thing, you see I too have been raped. And had I gotten pregnant yes it would have killed me. But I know, because I am a mature person, that to some other family, it would not be a "rape baby" it would be the baby they could never have and now were given one. In this day and age adoption agency's go into more depth and obtain more knowledge about the persons who are up for the adoption babies. They are not just going to send a child to a low income, poor supplied family for them to raise that child in poverty.
The social impact is very controversial. Someone said that they would have been "called a whore" for carring around this baby. I disagree. If someone were to be public about being raped, then the public should see your gesture to keeping the baby and then giving it up for adoption a moral thing.
I firmly believe any woman is strong enough mentally and physically to carry a baby for 9 months, rape baby or not, to make sure it is provided a better home. So the excuse that someone cant, "mentally" handle the thought of some rapists child in their womb, I'm sorry but you need to be mature and understand it is not the baby's fault, it is pure and wholesome and knows no wrong. So how can it be so horrible?
Now therapeutic abortion is a whole other argument. Say the womans life is in danger, then yes she must choose whether to carry the child or not. Again this boils down to morals. If I would be put in this position, I would choose to carry the child, knowing I have had a long and wholesome life.
In the end, abortion is always going to be a highly argued subject. And everyone has their own opinion. This was just simply mine.
Rape or not, a baby is a baby. Grow up, it's not all about you. I have noticed that more and more young people are sharing their opinions about abortion. More often than not they believe that the BABY is not a baby from the time of conception. When does it become a baby? Well, probably not at a magical moment sometime during the fourth or fifth month of pregnancy. Oh wait, I know, the magical moment is when the sperm, awfully LIVELY little thing, meets the egg and wriggles it's way in! Public school systems are teaching our youth that babies are nothing but a clump of diving cells or a small piece of tissue that you can do away with if the time is not right. Why would we allow this to go on? Abortion is murder. Call it whatever you need to so that you can sleep at night, but I know the truth and I know you know it as well. There is no easy out.
This is Amelia once again and as I read over this thread I have the words murder and Jesus constantly thrown in my face. Im not here to change anyones mind. Im just here to inform you that its a womans basic right to do what she wants with her body.
Abortion is one of those things that everyone's opinion
Being a overly religious prick and throwing the word murder in my face isnt going to change my opinion on if I want or dont want the child that some worthless rape of a man shot into me.
Until you've been a woman and experienced certain things then I will continue to discredit the opinion you provide me with.
Especially men. Men, you know nothing of childbirth or pregnancy and you never will. In fact. Most of you little pricks will shoot a child into a woman and abandon it at the womb, but we arnt shoving that into your faces. You think that a handshake and a smile, maybe a weekly visit to your kid makes you a "good father" or makes you "there for the kid" But really, if you arnt there and present for every little everything that happens in the kids life your as bad as the women you chastise for aborting the kid that you so carelessly impregnated her with. Why should she have to keep the kid that she mistakenly had with you if she didnt want to. Its up to her. Child support and alittle time is all you have to pay for the rest of your lives wile the woman has to commit the rest of her life to it. Some people arnt ready for it. And sorry, but a pregnacy can take a woman out of the game for a good 5 month. But you men suffer nothing.
And to the women who are pro life and so intent on shoving the gift of life down everyone's throats and then throw how they kept their little blessing of rape and so on, thats cool. More power to you, but not everyone is mentally stable enough for that. Or ready to commit their lives to a child that they werent ready for and dont want. Not everyone is nurturing.If the situation was bad enough theres a possibility that the mother may reject the child totally or suffer a mental collapse for it.
So honestly men. Its up to the woman. It is for her to decide. And if you dont like that then there really isnt much you can do except deal with it because until the day you shove a child out of your penis I will continue to not listen to a word you say.
Its going to take way more than a strangers opinion to change my mind.
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